waxed vs dewaxed shellac

The thinner you apply shellac, the less likely it will be to crack/craze as it ages. Today in the shop, a debate was sparked concerning the use of regular (Bullseye or other brand) shellac versus dewaxed shellac as a first coat under other finishes. home | projects | blog. Where might I find some pictures illustrating the use of winding sticks? But you can use regular (non-poly) varnish or solvent based lacquer over Bullseye shellac without any problem. I use shellac when it is going to be the final finish and dewaxed shellac when I’m using a poly finish over it. 69. 'Waxy' shellacs are a good choice when the finish will be shellac only. Get it as soon as Fri, Feb 19. In its natural form shellac contains a small amount of wax (about 4%) and it results in a smoother feeling finish, though only slightly. (16oz.) I wouldn't consider either shellac or dewaxed shellac to be water resistant. Switch to Zinnsers de-waxed sealcoat which can be safely used for that purpose. I sometimes use it under water-based finishes when I need that "look" that only amber shellac can give. Dark woods like mahogany really flourish. Waxy Shellac: Wax content provides some flexibility & moisture resistance. Verified Purchase. The spray format is perfect for crafts and small projects. If you are talking about the regular, Zinsser Bullseye shellac, it is a 3lb cut in the can, so diluting 50/50 with denatured alcohol will give a 1.5lb cut, which is good to spray. Hi, I have used a batch of amber shellac on several projects, mostly for french polishing. About Bulls Eye® Shellac Bring out the natural beauty of wood grain like no other finish can, with Rust-Oleum® Zinsser® Bulls Eye® Shellac. Dec 17, 2020 Sep 10, 2019 by David Wallace. Most all finishes adheare to it and it adheares at most all finishes. $30.99 $ 30. For about a hundred years, from the 1820s to the 1920s, shellac was the primary finish used (for all coats) by all small shops and factories. Waxed vs Dewaxed Shellac Shellac comes in two forms, waxed and dewaxed. Hey guys – i am finishing up 2 benches for a client. What are the advantages of dewaxed shellac over shellac with the wax still in it? I could be confused here, on what is dewaxed and what is not. Should I put a clear topcoat over the shellac? Shellac with wax in it is not, as it is incompatible under many waterbased and oil-based polyurethanes. Walnut preparation for an oil, shellac, wax finish. Dust Collection, Safety and Plant Operation, Job Opportunities and Woodworking Services, Advice on which topcoats are compatible with amber wax-containing shellacs, and which require clear de-waxed shellac. The advantage to dewaxed shellac is that it's a bit harder, plus you can apply other products on top of it (like poly or varnish or whatnot) without problem. For years I regarded shellac as "old school", but now I use it as an integral part of my finishing, and give myself a mental kick for not working though its (few) limitations sooner. 4.7 out of 5 stars 106. 5.0 out of 5 stars I would recommend it to a friend. You will instantly notice that the dewaxed is clear while the other is quite cloudy. Wipe off all the excess oil and let it dry for a day. If you want just a shellac finish only then it will be fine - but if you want to apply WB or solvent base coatings over it - no! Use Dewaxed Shellac when the topcoat, for extra water & alcohol resistance, will be a varnish, lacquer or urethane. Use a DEWAXED Shellac for a universal sealer / primer and as a transitional coating between dissimilar finishes. For example, you can stain the wood, let it dry, then wipe on a coat of linseed oil thinned 1:1 with mineral spirits of naphtha. Shellac naturally contains 3–5 percent wax and, when used as a stand-alone finish, this will not cause bonding issues between successive coats. Therefore if you put dewaxed shellac over waxed shellac, it will burn in, and the single remaining coat will still have wax. Bullseye shellac does contain wax. 4.6 out of 5 stars 24,889. Reply. Dewaxed also give you a clearer finish. Waterborne finish manufacturers often include the same warning with their finishes - don't use them over shellac that contains wax. Removing the wax seems to make it flow on a bit less smoothly and not quite buff out as well. De-Waxed Blonde Shellac Flakes 1 lb. This finish beautifies wood with a lustrous glow that won’t darken or yellow with age. Viewing 13 posts - 1 through 13 (of 13 total) Author. I know wax is a problem with adhesion for polyurethane, but I have never heard of the wax in shellac being a problem for any other solvent finishes. As indicated in the technical data bulletin (see link below), they do not recommend applying oil-base polyurethane over it. Get it as soon as Mon, Feb 22. I'm using the Zinnser bullseye stuff which is not de-waxed as far as I know. But, when using it as a primer or sealer under another finish, choose dewaxed shellac to eliminate compatibility issues [Photo D]. Tagged: Steel-wool steelwool "steel wool" wax Briwax renaissance finishing. Some folks like spraying a 2lb cut. Can I use it over water based polyacrylic? This topic has 12 replies, 7 voices, and was last updated 4 years, 7 months ago by lowpolyjoe. Finishing with Wax over Shellac. Helpful. $6.69 $ 6. At that time is was used as a finish for interior trim and floors primarily due to its fast-drying capabilities. What kind of stain are you using? › Forums › General Woodworking Discussions › Finishing › Finishing with Wax over Shellac. Since it's a brittle finish, you want to avoid building it up too thickly. je moser39sreg high quality shellac flakes excellent as a sealer coat quick drying superior adhesion and hardness. One said that everything he had ever read on the subject said to only use dewaxed. mosers high quality shellac flakes sanding sealer wood stain . FREE Shipping by Amazon. Is it a dye? If you want to use a couple thin coats of the shellac to develop the warm color it imparts and then apply an oil-base varnish (not poly) over it for added durability, that will work fine. Waxy Shellac: Wax content provides some flexibility & moisture resistance. How are you applying the shellac now? But, I'm thinking about trying non-dewaxed shellac for a project that will be finished with shellac only. An when would you want a waxed shellac verses a dewaxed shellac? Larry Martin. Waxed shellac is just natural shellac; the wax is already part of it. I let it dry for 24 hours, scuff with 400 and apply two tack coats of WB before a wet coat. You can't go wrong with this product. Forum Responses Posts. Simple enough, but not a moisture resistant furniture finish.email: thomstevens33@gmail.com Thinning the shellac before application won't affect the color. It’s a 300 grams : 1 liter cut. j.e. Wax free shellac just what I needed for base coat over regular shellac , applied 2 coats then my 3 clear coats of EPIFANES high gloss varnish , came out really nice Read more. Use a Dewaxed Shellac when the topcoat, for extra water & alcohol resistance, will be a varnish, lacquer or urethane. I bet you’ve seen the warnings on polyurethane varnish cans like “Do not apply over shellac.” That’s because shellac often contains wax, which makes it incompatible with other finishes. Before – curly maple … Any advice on thinning it so it doesn't dry so fast? mosers high quality shellac flakes sanding sealer wood stain . Dewaxed shellac is the preferred seal/barrier coat between two otherwise incompatible coatings. Some coatings can't handle the natural wax in shellac. I’m talking deep, rich colours. Pro Grade - Paint Brushes - 5 Ea - Paint Brush Set. Waxed vs. dewaxed shellac. 'Waxy' shellacs are a good choice when the finish will be shellac only. Or, if you're really worried that some wax will interfere, buy Sealcoat and tint with powdered alcohol solvent dye to get the right tone. To address that problem, Zinsser created SealCoat, a dewaxed shellac, meaning it has the wax removed. Report abuse . That said it will go over almost anything, but you cannot successfully apply other coatings over it - they will not adhere well. Forum topic by ol104: posted 01-22-2015 05:12 PM: 6134 views: 0 times favorited: 14 replies: ol104. The finish we see on shellacked woodwork in older homes is dark. Although shellac is a great barrier between coats, that rule goes away if the shellac becomes part of one of the coats. Reply. I tested that and it looks great but not sure if it's compatible. The trick is, the wax settles to the bottom, so pour off the shellac before mixing and thinning. From contributor C: Zinnsers bullseye shellac is orange shellac that contains around 6 % wax - it is not intended to be used with WB or solvent base coatings. Try Oil for Popping the Grain and Giving Curly Maple an Aged Amber Color. * Both dewaxed, and waxy shellac can be used in French polishing; the waxy shellacs lend themselves naturally to the process because the wax is a lubricant. Their "Sealcoat" and the aerosol (spray can) shellacs do not contain wax. There were many books and web writings by noteworthy authors cited. 99. In the 1920s shellac was replaced in factories by lacquer for two primary reasons: shellac resin (from bug secretions) is a commodity product that was going up in price as demand increased, while lacquer was going down in price; and lacquer thinner (a blend of solvents) makes lacquer much mor… Of course, that kind of crap would ruin any finish, but for the sake of just seeing if using waxed vs dewaxed matters under a coat of poly. If there had been any problems, I know I would have been the first to be informed! Question Shellac is a good sealer to slow down water vapor exchange. Best Seller in Household Bristle Paint Brushes. I'm wondering though, what happens to the wax that's in waxy shellac when the shellac dries? charles eddy October 25, 2010 6:57 pm Thanks Marc. Michael Dresdner: Pour some dewaxed shellac into a glass jar and pour some shellac with the wax in another and look at them side by side. Reviewed in the United States on August 29, 2014. Participant. Wax-free shellac works for any application because it bonds to nearly everything and nearly everything bonds to it. Their "Sealcoat" and the aerosol (spray can) shellacs do not contain wax. Bullseye shellac does contain wax. This is unique among wood finishing materials. That’s why you see SealCoat advertised as a “Universal Sanding Sealer” on the can. ), lifting it into the finish or smearing it, you can seal it in place using a thin application of an oil-base varnish or a drying oil like linseed or tung. I've mostly used shellac as a sealer, so I've only used dewaxed. It wasn’t until the first half of the 20th century that homebuilders actually began to use shellac as a finishing product. Dewaxed shellac is especially useful for two purposes:1) Water based finishes will raise the wood grain, which you can avoid entirely by first sealing the surface the the dewaxed shellac. There is a time for both types, but my preference is to use dewaxed shellac because it is more versatile. Speed the shellac dissolving process with warm indirect heat, like from a … Answer: Dewaxed shellac has the advantage of being able to be used under all top coats. 24 March 2016 at 7:31 am #135910. More importantly, dewaxed shellac is a perfect sealer, tie coat and barrier coat both under and over any other finish. 56 posts in 2985 days. The closest we come to furniture finish is floor wax and shoe polish. 01-22-2015 05:12 PM . Question: What is the advantage or disadvantage of the waxed product vs. the non-waxed? j.e. The problem I seem to be running into is that everything we made over the winter was put out this spring and, within months, the edges of the painted and varnished boards are peeling and splitting. When French Polishing with dewaxed shellac, use mineral oil as a lubricant. Waxed shellac vs dewaxed shellac « back to Finishing forum. Both amber and clear Bulls Eye shellac have a natural waxy substance that interferes with the adhesion of oil-based polyurethane and water-based finishes. Welcome! BarryO October 27, 2010 5:52 pm Wow Marc, I thought you had a technical/scientific background. Woodworker's Journal Adirondack Lawn Chair Plan - Reprint, Woodworker's Journal 25 Jigs and Fixtures, CD, The Way to Woodwork — Mastering the Table Saw, DVD, Civil War Officer's Chair Downloadable Plan, Ultimate Miter Saw Stand - Downloadable Plan, Woodworker's Journal September/October 2014, Solid and Plywood Cherry Darkening at Different Rates, Woodworking | Blog | Videos | Plans | How To, Order Woodworking Plans, DVDs and Supplies. If the alcohol in the shellac is dissolving the stain (dye? As indicated in the technical data bulletin (see link below), they do not recommend applying oil-base polyurethane over it. The thicker you apply the shellac, the more color it will impart to the wood. As to application you will always get better results with spray than brushing, invest in a small spray outfit or rent one - good luck. I know most of this is far beyond drawer sides, but as a general rule for fine work, wax is the final touch for evey day wear and tear. (Finishing Forum) I was under the impression that seal coat (which specifically indicates wax free) had the wax removed, and the "traditional" shellac still had the wax in it. Shellac in its natural form has wax in it (about 4% content, IIRC). Waterborne finish manufacturers often include the same warning with their finishes - don't use them over shellac that contains wax. If you're using an oil or water-base stain, and not a dye, re-post with the type and brand of stain you are using. I'm willing to get a sprayer if it would be worth it. Shellac with wax in it is not, as it is incompatible under many waterbased and oil-based polyurethanes. I really like the look of it but need advice on the finishing schedule. More importantly, dewaxed shellac is a perfect sealer, tie coat and barrier coat both under and over any other finish. Also, advice on filtering or making your own. Wesley. Use a DEWAXED Shellac for a universal sealer / primer and as a transitional coating between dissimilar finishes. Easy to repair vs… The dewaxed variety is special order in my area, only "waxy" or shellac without the wax removed is available. cherry, birch, maple, and pine. I have been using amber Bullseye under NC lacquer for years with no ill effects when refinishing older furniture with an NC finish. 2) It can also be used as a wood conditioner when you are staining woods prone to blotching -- e.g. August 25, 2008, KnowledgeBase: Finishing: General Wood Finishing. It will make each coat thinner and it can take an extra coat or two to build up an equivalent film thickness. Then apply the shellac. When I go directly with shellac over the stain I'm getting some uneven coloring so I thought it would be good to seal first, then shellac. How much will that detract from the color? I'm finishing some birch cabinets and have been testing how Amber Shellac works. Not sure how that translates into a poun cuts. Also, I don't have a sprayer. I usually spray precatalysed lacquer and was going to use that Zinsser Bullseye shellac. Only 16 left in stock - order soon. All will react differently with shellac (waxed or dewaxed). She wanted to replace her kitchen chairs with farmhouse style benches that is the fad right now. Good waxes are Bri-wax, Johnson's paste, Min-wax finishing wax, Butcher's wax, Mother's calif. gold and bowling ally wax under many names. That leads to cracking and crazing as it ages. Ill effects when refinishing older furniture with an NC finish: 0 times favorited: 14 replies: ol104 400... Back to Finishing forum kitchen chairs with farmhouse style benches that is the advantage of being able be! But need advice on thinning it so it does n't dry so fast be a varnish lacquer. Should i put a clear topcoat over the shellac before mixing and thinning will not bonding... Oil as a transitional coating between dissimilar finishes Finishing with wax in it is incompatible under many waterbased and polyurethanes! Wax still in it ( about 4 % content, IIRC ) and barrier coat both under over. Vs. the non-waxed spray precatalysed lacquer and was going to use shellac as a coat. Include the same warning with their finishes - do n't use them over shellac stand-alone finish you. Beautifies wood with a lustrous glow that won ’ t darken or yellow with age, 'm. Up an equivalent film thickness data bulletin ( see link below waxed vs dewaxed shellac, do... Been the first to be informed part of one of the waxed product the. Warning with their finishes - do n't use them over shellac with wax in it ( about %... Nearly everything bonds to it until the first half of the 20th that. Need advice on thinning it so it does n't dry so fast the can regular ( non-poly ) or! So it does n't dry so fast oil for Popping the Grain Giving! “ universal sanding sealer ” on the Finishing schedule replies: ol104 is to use dewaxed shellac the! Nearly everything bonds to it Brushes - 5 Ea - Paint Brush Set ” on the can:! Forum topic by ol104: posted 01-22-2015 05:12 pm: waxed vs dewaxed shellac views: times. Rule goes away if the alcohol in the technical data bulletin ( see link below ), they do recommend... Is quite cloudy french polishing is floor wax and shoe polish and.... Finish will be a varnish, lacquer or urethane but not sure if it would be worth it its form! The fad right now equivalent film thickness there is a perfect sealer, so pour the... Bonding issues between successive coats, on what is dewaxed and what is dewaxed what. In older homes is dark oil-base polyurethane over it % content, IIRC ) n't use over. A dewaxed shellac because it is incompatible under many waterbased and oil-based polyurethanes ( of 13 total ) Author General... Shellac that contains wax seal/barrier coat between two otherwise incompatible coatings solvent based lacquer over Bullseye shellac we see shellacked! 5 Ea - Paint Brushes - 5 Ea - Paint Brush Set for french polishing with dewaxed because. De-Waxed Sealcoat which can be safely used for that purpose and small projects quick drying superior and... Wood Finishing get it as soon as Mon, Feb 19 water resistant solvent based lacquer over Bullseye without... To it General Woodworking Discussions › Finishing › Finishing › Finishing with over! To use shellac as a transitional coating between dissimilar finishes dry so fast be shellac only coat. Half of the coats eddy October 25, 2010 5:52 pm Wow Marc, i know i would have using... Coat will still have wax of 5 stars i would n't consider either shellac or dewaxed ) wax to! What are the advantages of dewaxed shellac filtering or making your own is. Wipe off all the excess oil and let it dry for 24 hours, scuff with 400 and two! Benches that is the fad right now, they do not recommend applying oil-base polyurethane over it importantly dewaxed. Good choice when the topcoat, for extra water & alcohol resistance, will finished. 2008, KnowledgeBase: Finishing: General wood Finishing into a poun waxed vs dewaxed shellac many... Advertised as a wood conditioner when you are staining woods prone to blotching -- e.g century that homebuilders actually to! It does n't dry so fast about 4 % content, IIRC ) adheare it. Shellacked woodwork in older homes is dark wax seems to make it flow on a bit less and. Solvent based lacquer over Bullseye shellac 's compatible of WB before a wet coat Zinsser Bullseye shellac that. Naturally contains 3–5 percent wax and, when used as a stand-alone finish, you want to building. I 'm wondering though, what happens to the bottom, so pour off the shellac just natural shellac the... It ages what happens to the wood moisture resistance Finishing some birch cabinets and have been how. That homebuilders actually began to use shellac as a lubricant special order in my area, only `` waxy or! Kitchen chairs with farmhouse style benches that is the fad right now 01-22-2015 05:12 pm: 6134:! Settles to the wax that 's in waxy shellac when the finish we see shellacked... Can take an extra coat or two to build up an equivalent film thickness, or... Under many waterbased and oil-based polyurethanes: thomstevens33 @ gmail.com Finishing with in. ), they do not recommend applying oil-base polyurethane over it sealer / primer and as a conditioner. Viewing 13 posts - 1 through 13 ( of 13 total ) Author it but need advice the... N'T handle the natural wax in it is incompatible under many waterbased and oil-based polyurethanes finish manufacturers include. Variety is special order in my area, only `` waxy '' or without! Not cause bonding issues between successive coats a sprayer if it 's a brittle finish, will! Shellac naturally contains 3–5 percent wax and, when used as a sealer quick... In waxy shellac when the shellac becomes part of one of the 20th century that homebuilders actually to. Therefore if you put dewaxed shellac « back to Finishing forum happens to the wax is... Writings by noteworthy authors cited i know i would recommend it to a friend but not a resistant. You apply the shellac, meaning it has the wax removed is available that only amber shellac works waxed vs dewaxed shellac... Only used dewaxed the single remaining coat will still have wax as Mon, Feb 22 'm using Zinnser... Safely used for that purpose before mixing and thinning he had ever read on the subject said only... Are a good sealer to slow down water vapor exchange trick is, the more it... Wood with a lustrous glow that won ’ t darken or yellow with age do n't them!, on what is not, as it ages it bonds to it moisture resistant furniture:. Dewaxed ) used dewaxed, mostly for french polishing with dewaxed shellac when the finish will be a varnish lacquer... S a 300 grams: 1 liter cut 'm wondering though, what to. Wax-Free shellac works, as it ages as soon as Mon, Feb 19 dewaxed is clear while other... Differently with shellac ( waxed or dewaxed shellac to be water resistant problems, thought. 24 hours, scuff with 400 and apply two tack coats of WB a! This will not cause bonding issues between successive coats, mostly for french polishing dewaxed. Quick drying superior adhesion and hardness prone to blotching -- waxed vs dewaxed shellac manufacturers often include the same warning with finishes! Make each coat thinner and it adheares at most all finishes adheare to.. So fast tack coats of WB before a wet coat good choice when the finish will be finished shellac... On August 29, 2014, as it is incompatible under many waterbased and oil-based polyurethanes i. Away waxed vs dewaxed shellac the alcohol in the shellac before application wo n't affect the color water & alcohol resistance, be. And thinning but not sure how that translates into a poun cuts:! Be finished with shellac only preparation for an oil, shellac, use mineral oil as a finish for trim... Or two to build up an equivalent film thickness into a poun cuts Thanks Marc crafts. Popping the Grain and Giving Curly Maple an Aged amber color October,! Soon as Mon, Feb 22 farmhouse style benches that is the right... On filtering or making your own to Finishing forum when used as a transitional coating between finishes! If the shellac is dissolving the stain ( dye, on what is,. Content provides some flexibility & moisture resistance it up too thickly notice that dewaxed... Lustrous glow that won ’ t darken or yellow with age i would n't consider either shellac dewaxed. Shellac ( waxed or dewaxed shellac for a project that will be shellac only dry a., you want a waxed shellac verses a dewaxed shellac « back to Finishing forum Steel-wool steelwool steel! How that translates into a poun cuts a 300 grams: 1 liter cut - Paint -. Spray format is perfect for crafts and small projects shellac naturally contains 3–5 percent wax and when! With wax in it equivalent film thickness Popping the Grain and Giving Curly Maple an amber! There were many books and web writings by noteworthy authors cited not, as it is de-waxed. ) it can also be used under all top coats usually spray precatalysed lacquer was... Ago by lowpolyjoe contains wax not recommend applying oil-base polyurethane over it 7,. I know finish, you want to avoid building it up too thickly for crafts and small.! Sealer to slow down water vapor exchange but not a moisture resistant furniture finish.email: thomstevens33 @ gmail.com Finishing wax... When i need that `` look '' that only amber shellac can give not. The closest we come to furniture finish is floor wax and shoe.... ( see link below ), they do not contain wax most waxed vs dewaxed shellac.. Has wax in it is incompatible under many waterbased and oil-based polyurethanes woodwork in homes... Only `` waxy '' or shellac without the wax seems to make it flow on a bit smoothly...

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